$257.16. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. The main sign of motherboard or control board failure is intermittent switching off and on. It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. Navien NR-240A heating issues Heating Help: The Wall The air will need to be bled out of the system. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. Many systems turn on and off automatically to keep the water within a specified temperature range. Navien tankless whole house HWH. Increase water pressure at the water heater. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. If any of them are loose or disconnected, your circulator pump won't work. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. Therefore, I can't drain the system. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). For example, you may damp it into a bathtub, pushing the water through the isolation side on hot. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Lets hop in! On-Demand Mode. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again. This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. This on-demand water heater has a lower carbon footprint, is energy efficient, and has a longer lifespan. You can contact a plumber if necessary. Answer: It really depends on your model type. I recently had a 240A2 installed. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. I think it's 100F. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . 4 Common Hot Water Recirculation Pump Problems 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. My navien furance is producing hot water but not circulating The major difference with hot water pumps in new homes is that you can install a full recirculation pump system (Type #1). To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. Shut off the appliance for half an hour and then restart. If pointed in the right direction, though, I might be able to solve this. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. Is this incorrectly installed? You need a crossover valve installed under one of your faucets that is far away from the water heater (there are a few different styles but they all have four connections and get installed under a faucet). how to turn on navien recirculation pump - khushboocatering.com Older Navien heater models are prone to flow sensor issues. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Here is the final install. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. FREE Returns . These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. Also, as I'm taking a closer look at it, I'm concerned that some key things may be amiss. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). Tankless Water Heater Breaker Size Calculator: What Size Breaker? It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. What You Should Know Before Shutting off the Water You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. It is located on the lowest corner opposite the on and off button. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. Yes!!! sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. Create a chart to regulate hot water usage. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. For more information, please see our You can also identify and fix them yourself. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? Continue with Recommended Cookies. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? Categories Home Improvement, Patio, Lawn & Garden, Plumbing, Tools, Water Valve Handle Broke Off? To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. There are no error codes showing. If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. Just one Navien water heater manual for all NPE-A and NPE-S units. It also increases the gas bill. Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valve? Do you want to know the details? Others run on a timer. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. How to Flush a Tankless Water Heater (Step-by-Step Procedure) Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Is this correct for the function of the system? rev2023.3.3.43278. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. First, you need to consider Things to consider when sizing the busiest usage period or peak time. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. Grundfos small circulators are perfect as hot water recirculation pumps for commercial and domestic hot water applications. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. Turns out if you "disable" schedules when in always on mode it stops the every 30 minute schedule the device uses when in Always On mode. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. Signs There's a Problem with Your Hot Water Recirculating Pump - Maeser Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). We turn it off because it will waste gas. Is there the same solution for NR240A? You can contact a plumber if necessary. Is there a check valve? Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. We dont. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. Always on checks in every 30 minutes and turns on the heat recirculation if the water is 9 degrees under the water goal temp. The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. Average 1-6 Person Home kWh Usage, Gas Vs Electric Water Heater Monthly Cost Comparison (State-By-State), Water Heating Costs For 1,2,3,4,5,6 Family Homes (State-By-State Analysis), Electric Water Heating Cost, kWh Usage Per Month (State-By-State RECS Analysis), What Is W2 Wire On Thermostat? Since pumps cost about $200 each, the recirculating pump will pay for itself in 3-4 years. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? Turn off the power before removing the filter. It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] We have some suggestions for you if you want to buy the best wifi sockets. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. Not Mounted The Pump Securely or Isolate It, Navien Tankless Water Cycles On And Off [5 Easy Solutions]. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. plumbing - Why is my hot water circulator causing there to be hot water It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Legal Disclosure:Lildutchuncle.com provides and shares information on plumbing, heating & air quality, home improvement, and other DIY projects. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. The DIP switch setting has some problems. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. First, find the control panel on the front of the unit. Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. Why Its Important To Turn Off The Water Recirculating Pump? Navien Flow Sensor. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. Power Waste Understanding Navien Recirculating Water Heater - Heating Help: The Wall Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. NPE-A2 Series | Navien Contents show (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. (42-167 Amps), How Much Propane Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Its not exactly normal. We have a standard gas hot water heater with a circulating pump. $197.08 $ 197. Timers and wifi sockets are quite cheap. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. Use your pump when you want to use it. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. That's an interesting solution. The heating supply thermistor is defective. I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. Navien NPE-240A2 Pump Noise. : r/Plumbing - reddit The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. It worked perfectly. Bosch Tankless Water Heater Troubleshooting [A Complete Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Error Codes [Ultimate Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Wont Ignite [7 Easy Solutions]. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Hi: You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Let's hop in! The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water. Thanks. Locate the reset button on the heaters front control panel. Then what are we waiting for? Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. Will a Water-Saving Recirculation Pump Save Me Money? - Treehugger The whole point of installing such a pump is to get hot water fast. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. Also you need not be concerned about pump damage. 2. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. 2. What effect does this have on gas usage for instant hot water? The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. Then, read the manual on Navien tankless water heater how to reset. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. Is this correct for the function of the system? The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not.