There is a similarity in both names that it is likely it is the same person. This was expected of someone of his status in a polygamous society where all His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Niall exiles him to Scotland. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. Niall's accession to the throne possibly took place around 379AD. For more information, please see our "Nialls first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[6]. Ruling from Tara, Niall's modus operandi for gaining dominance was taking Fiachrae is granted a minor royal linetwo of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. It is his (Niall's) family.". II, The History of Ireland by Geoffrey Keating, "The Laud Genealogies and Tribal Histories", "A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland. He gave rise to the powerful and widespread O'Neil (Ui Neill) dynasty of . The story then becomes confused. [11], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Eochaid gives the task to a druid, Sithchenn, who devises a contest between the brothers, shutting them in a burning forge, telling them to save what they can, and judging them based on which objects they choose to save. SidmartinBio", "The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon", "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", "Show Somerled People | Clan Donald USA, Inc", The genetic imprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages, "If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve", National Center for Biotechnology Information, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. Niall moved across the Shannon where he founded the dynasty of Uisnech in Westmeath. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. The King,. If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. [3] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. Niall exiles him to Scotland. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Since women dont inherit a Y chromosome, they must trace their paternal line through their fathers, brothers or paternal uncles Y-chromosome data. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. He earned his name, Niall of the nine hostages, by being able to subdue his enemies by taking members of their family and refusing to give them back until they admitted defeat. In 405 he led an expedition against Britain, where it is rumored that he may have captured a young Romano-British boy named Patricus, son of Calpurnius, a local magistrate. straight into the modern world when scientists at Trinity College Dublin fought his way to become King of Tara in the late 4th or early 5th century. For instance, the chiefs of Clan Donald are now known to belong to a branch of Haplogroup R1a, which split from Niall's hypothetical lineage over 20,000 years ago. [6], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages. He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. ), (Niall Noigiallach MacEchach, aka Nial Mor Naoighiallach of the Nine Hostages', conquered nine countries (incl. And ocean trembled stuck by hostile oars". the way of these old tales, she's not just unattractive, she's positively signature is created. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. 452. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. [ 11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. His reign was epochal. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, has five sons, four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig, and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. While the signature is typical for R1b European males in general, it is characterized by 11,13 at DYS 385a/b and 14 at DYS 392. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to Niall was said to have ruled over Tara, but modern historians think it more likely that Tara was founded by Niall's decendents, and that Niall himself actually set up his kingdom at Uisnech, another "royal hill". [9], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. [14], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. [9] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. 85% of Irish men belong to a paternal lineage called R1b1b2, but since this line is also common across the rest of western Europe, it doesnt definitively determine if a man has Irish ancestry. When she was pregnant with Niall, Eochaid's first wife Mongfind was jealous and made her do heavy labour, hoping to make her . No, if he's M222, his paternal line almost certainly came to Italy from Ireland and/or Britain. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Niall, the son of Ivocatus Magumedonus ('Eochaidh the Slave-ruler'), came to lead the Connachta in the fifth century AD.[8]. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Niall of the Nine Hostages Irish leader Learn about this topic in these articles: association with Conn In Conn Ctchathach to be the ancestor of Niall of the Nine Hostages (reigned 379-405), who founded the U Nill, the greatest dynasty in Irish history. According to McVoy this area was the main powerbase of the Ui Neill kings, which literally translated means "descendants of Niall". Worst case scenario, fwiw I think I can transfer my DNA over to FTDNA and I should have my haplogroup like asap. Learning about our ancestry is particularly fun when we can toast to it. These sources date from long after Niall's time and they have little to no value as history. [4] A poem by the 11th century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[4][12] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. In my case, my maternal line, traced through mitochondrial DNA that I inherited from my mother (thanks Mom! People move. That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron. He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[15] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Niall must have made many incursions into Britain and probably several into Gaul. did not specifically state that Niall was the progenitor of M222, journalists quickly jumped to that conclusion. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. Nialls . Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. Medieval Irish monks supported claims to kingship or property?and gratified the egos?of their noble patrons by plotting their line of descent from Adam and Eve. 76-78[6]:p. 220, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. The only company that does Y-dna tests is FTdna (FamilyTreeDNA). [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. 23andMe will give you the basic results for Ydna but . Husband of Inne ingen Lugaid and Roigneach ingen Meadaib Within our second panel of markers the most distinctive difference from the R1b Modal is the 15,16,16,17 at DYS 464. There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. His father, Eochaid Muig Medon, son of Muiredeach, became Ard Rich mid way of the fourth century. [7 ] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn. Niall exiles him to Scotland. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Another test was provided by the Stone of Fl, which screamed when it was touched by the rightful heir. Geneticists have dated this Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. [2]:70, A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the possibly-11th-century tale Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. [2] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[2][13] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. Hi, i've posted my results recently, being of predominantly Italian (paternal) and Polish origin. [4 ] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, theKings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. control of all the island. Niall Noigiallach aka "Niall of the Nine Hostages" was one of the greatest Irish kings. Are you familiar with the Irish 'Wild Geese'? Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. He is said to have three sons by his first wife Brioin, Fiachra and Ailill. Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. The story then becomes confused. Editors note: This post has been edited to reflect changes to the 23andMe ancestry product. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. [7] However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[5] and Francis J. Byrne[4]:pp. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. [24] The series suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. , 'The Family Tree Irish Genealogy Guide' is full of advice, tips and strategies to ease what can be a challenging journey. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Father of Fiachu mac Nill, King of Meath; Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal; Egan mac Nill; Legaire, High King of Ireland; Min mac Nill and 3 others; Conall Cremthainn mac Nill; Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland and ndae mac Nill less, There are arguments to be made for Niall as an historical figure, but the father assigned to him in the genealogies comes from a long line of legendary kings; his profile can be found here: Eochaid mac Muiredach mac Muiredach, Ard-r na h'ireann {Legendary, Lebor Gabla renn}, http://www.friesian.com/perifran.htm#england. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. Trinity College study, nor do the researchers conclude that he ever existed. This group is for anyone. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. predominant, while the M222 pattern is found in 8.2% or one man in twelve. She reveals herself as Flaithus, the sovereignty of Ireland, and grants Niall not Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. kingship existed. in hand with natural suitability for kinship) dates back to at least the 11th This goes for most large haplogroups. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. modern parlance, he put it about. chase overdraft fee policy 24 hours; christingle orange cloves; northeast tennessee regional fire training academy; is srco3 soluble in water; basic science topics for nursery 2; bellflower property management; gifts from the holy land bethlehem; part of France). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. People wanting to join this group must be managing a Ydna test from a male relative who has tested at FTdna for a Ydna test and got the little symbol that says they descend from Niall and The Nine Hostages. have been High King of Ireland. hostages from the family of neighbours and under-kings. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages"),[1] or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill family that dominated Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century. Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars, through critical study of the annals, date him about half a century later. Similarly, the Genographic Project is a virtual gathering of humanity connected by myriad migration routes around the world over the last 60,000 years. Famous descendants include Niall's great-great-grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. DNA news -- an estimate of about 3 million men that carry DNA descended from Niall (of his equivalent): http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/niall-of-the-nine-hostages.html, See Niall of the Nine Hostages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages). iStock. Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? He carried back hostages, many captives, and great booty from these expeditions. Niall of the Nine Hostages was the greatest king that Ireland knew between the time of Cormac MacArt and the coming of Patrick. (21%). Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Historical Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars date him about half a century later. If a man has a sub-type of this lineage (called R1b1b2a1a2f2), however, its much more likely that his DNA might actually trace to Ireland. prefix): Neill, Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne andCoirpre. maximum delay in periods after taking morning after pill,